Awww i hope you have a GREAT time livelovelaugh! We'll miss you:=D! I LOVE London <33!! It's simply amazing!

kuhriisten: SOO RIGHT xD! He never fought for her. Plus that Peyton only wants someone to play "Superman" for her. She only wants Lucas to "save her" and that's why she's in love with the IDEA OF THEM TOGETHER AS A COUPLE and not with the real LUCAS...lol!

london wicked. have a good time livelovelaugh, send us a postcard!


not only are leyton and brucas two completely different relationships but Lucas goes about them in two completely different ways. i honestly think one of the biggest flaws of leyton is how easily they let them go, where as Lucas will change things to work things out with Brooke he is less willing with peyton, which is strange because people claim (even brooke in the show) that lucas didn't show his love for brooke that it was all pretty words, i beg to differ, he did over and over again, he had pretty words but he also backed them up. if any thing leyton is the relationship which is just words with little action or emotion to back it up. the comparisons between his behaviour with the girls are so big, lucas was willing to give his room to brooke and didn't want to loose her, even when they were not together they gravitated towards each other because i think they need each other and make each other better people even if it is just them as friends, when they were together they wanted to stay together in the future and were willing to go to a college simply so they can be together, he fights for her and has trouble letting brooke go, not because she asks him to but because he wants to, where as with peyton once they end it they both walk away from each other, did you notice how easily they flipped in season one, they were willing to cheat on brooke but then they seemed to completely loose their feelings for each other and instantly became like friends, for such an 'epic' love they both let go of it straight away and then so easily walked away between sn4 and 5 as well, lucas and peytons relationship wasnt about compromise, at the first sign that things weren't going to the way one of them wanted they ended it, neither one was willing to give up anything for the other (except it seems Peyton is more than willing to risk her friendship with Brooke), Brooke had to leave Tree Hill and Lucas gets her to stay and he wasnt even dating her at the time, yet peyton his girfriend is leaving and he tells her to go and doesnt even consider following her. Brooke risks her heart everytime she gets involved with lucas, even with their friendship, with peyton its more of a need, if her life isnt going so well or the way she planned it she then turns to lucas, i think his stability attracts peyton.
In season one lucas had a crush on peyton and they had an instant bond, he saw a chance to be with his 'dream' girl and took it, once it was over he moved on quicker than anything and actually fell in love with brooke for who she is not as some childish crush with a girl from afar, in sn 4 he showed little interest in peyton as more than a friend until suddenly he had some 'epiphany' that she is his one after all chance with brooke ended, and if he does propose to peyton after not even one date and three years of next to no contact and the little contact they had is far from friendly its just follows the pattern of leyton, they fall together as easily as they break apart, and i have no doubt in my mind they will fall apart and walk away from each other just as easily again.

Broody_4_Cheery, you are the smartest person ever!!!! I have those exact same sentiments, adn I forgot about the whole room thing too.

My thing is fairness. I do not think it is fair for leyton to be together. Leyton got together because Peyton tore Brucas apart. In s1, peyton did not want to be with lucas. He moved on, and started dating brooke. You could see that he was developing feelings for her, once he started to get to know her. Just when Lucas begins to fall for Brooke, here comes peyton to attack him in the hotel room. She screwed with Lucas's heart, and broke her best friend's. What makes it even worse, is that Peyton dumped him after that. SHe ruined his relationship, played with his emotions, stabbed her best friend in the back, and doesn't stay with him. So she basically did all that for nothing. Then she has the audacity to get mad at him for sleeping with Nikki. Didn't peyton something far much worse? Yeahh. Move on to season 2, Lucas works his butt off to win Brooke back (gives her his room, fixes her car, etc.) and he finally does. Brucas is happier than ever. Than what happens, Peyton tells Brooke she loves Lucas. Brooke is now paranoid. Add on the fact lucas tells brooke peyton kissed him, and she could not take it anymore. Peyton sabotaged their relationship again. HOw Brooke forgave Peyton is a true sign of how amazing a person she is. THat break up in s4 ep9 was so lame, and everyone knows they still loved each other, brooke especially. If they never showed brooke at the end reminiscing with some old photos of her and lucas it would have been a little different, but their flashback in s5 makes that null and void anyway. THe fact is Brucas never had a chance to let their love play out. Their separation was not on their own accord, but by outside interference from peyton. Leyton broke up on their own accord: he proposed, she said no, but won't let him go. I think Peyton just sees lucas as somebody who never left her and was always there. So she will not let him go because she is afraid of being lonely. Jake told her that too. IN fact, it was jake who had to push her to see him. She does not love lucas because she was not willing to marry him. That is what lucas wanted, some people are like that. he wanted to take the relationship to the next level, he wanted a stronger commitment. She was not ready: that is a reason why many people break up. People can only date for so long, some prefer long engagements, some don't, but I guess they never talked about it. I feel so bad for brooke. Her relationship with the only person she ever truly loved was destroyed by her best friend. No leytoner can deny that. She wrote him 82 letters, and cried when she was not with him, now she is trying to sabotage her own relationship with him. THat is why she constantly reminds him of his love for peyton, and lindsay. She loves him, but she has felt the pain of losing him twice, and she said it before she was afraid of getting hurt, and it unfortunately happened. Now she is trying to have a baby to possibly keep her heart busy, and lucas in her life, but at a distance so she won't be tempted (although she wouldn't betray peyton or hurt lindsay anyway). Leyton being endgame would be unfair because Peyton does nothing but screw up his relationships, letting her have him after all of the times she let him go is just wrong. Peyton had three times to be with him, and SHE gave up three times. BROOKE WAS WILLING TO LOSE EVERYTHING FOR HIM, AND PEYTON WOULDNT EVEN LEAVE A CRAPPY JOB IN THE MAILROOM FOR HIM. Brooke loved him enough to give him a second chance after he cheated on her with her best friend. She has the unconditional love for Lucas, not Peyton. I know Mark has this crush on Leyton, but can't he see that what he has put together makes Leyton look like a really bad matching. Brooke was willing to do everything and anything to help him or be with him, and lucas would do anything to be with both girls, so why not put the two "anythings" together and put brucas back on top. Just because you write it so that brooke forgives peyton does not mean that everybody will. It is not about what is supposed to be, but what is right and what is fair, and Brucas, a love built between to people who risked a lot to be with each other (their friendship, Brooke's fragile heart) is a lot better then leyton, a relationship made out of backstabbing and deceit, and a relationhip where either party is willing to so easily give up on each other. Brucas forever, and if they are not together, than both Mark adn Lucas no nothing about true love and relationships. Peyton has chosen something over luke three times. It wasn't a break up over a fight, or some other indiscretion, she blatantly chose other things over him, so she does not love you enough, and the way a true love deserves to be loved. IT SHOULD BE BRUCAS AS THE FINAL CHAPTER. HE can call whomever, but he needs to be with brooke, hands down.

i totally agree. it so frustrates me, come on Marky! he contr0ols the damn show if he didnt want leyton to appear this bad he should have and could have changed it, but no he makes leyton happen like this and constantly gives them flaws, he can't control the fact they have such lame romantic on screen chemistry but he can control everything else. if he wants people to actually believe leyton are soulmates he needs to show evidence, he needs to evolve the relationship and the characters within it, thats why so many brucasers arn't loosing faith or giving up, not because we are stubborn so and so's (but most of us are) but because we simply can't buy leyton because he's selling it so. badly

Spot on, I totally agree. Stay tuned for my next post, I am working on some big things right now.

ahhh i completely agree! doesnt it feel like when peyton turned down lucas, it was only added to create more drama to make it seem like their love was epic? mark actually did the opposite, he just showed how unfit they were for each other and how in reality, they just dont mesh together. in a functioning, genuine relationship, a person will sacrifice something that they enjoy if it meant they were gonna lose the other person. in this case peyton didnt wanna give up her job at the mailing room for lucas. basically meaning their love wasnt unconditional and profound enough to put aside their own desires to be with one another. and plus, they couldve found a way to make things work no matter what happened.

and mark hasnt shown that theyve grown individually as a person and brought out the best in one another. like with Brucas, lucas got to see a more intellectual and earnest side of brooke that not many people saw. and thats when he fell in love with her. with leyton, theyre still the same...peyton has still not quite worked out her issues. lucas, for some reason, lost his drive to fight for the girl he wanted to be with. with brooke, you saw the look in his eyes when he wanted to be with her and you felt the sincere feelings he had for her when she was slipping away from him but with peyton, he let go of her within a couple of hours.

mark, thanks for showing us why leyton isnt the epic love!

yeah thanks mark!

like ive said before, leyton dont fight for each other because deep down they know (and so does mark) that what they have just isnt worth fighting for.

gawd we dont even need to defend brucas and bash leyton, the show does it for us.

bahaha agreed! this is probably juvenile but i took it as a sign, in season 5 when brooke goes to lucas to help her watch angie so she can finish her sketches and they show brucas sitting on the couch, lucas is talking about finding the one who completes you and finding your soulmate. sooo i took that as a sign brucas was gonna be endgame even though it might have been a coincidence haha

i thnk its a total sign, you think thats juvenile lol i think the way he was lying there looking at the key and then bang brooke knocks on the door was a sign. im totally paranoid, every converstaion they have i think points to them being endgame.

LOL...it was definately a sign! I expected to be Peyton...i mean i was like..: "Aww Seyton again now...i can't believe it." And then he opens the f*cking door...and i see BROOKE....LMAO! You can't even imagine how i reacted...lol! haha! I mean...she came to Lucas. When she could go to ANYONE for help (Peyton,Haley etc.) she CHOSE to go to Lucas....<33! This fact shows a LOT! The "couch scene" was definately the most AMAZING & ROMANTIC moment of the whole season.

season 5 a brucas season or a leyton season??? that is the question.

I think season 5 was designed for leyton, but Brucas was just more entertaining. THe reason for that I believe is that it was not rammed down our throats every week, like the leyton saga was. Every week peyton was complaining or depressed about lucas. Brucas moments were snuck in, and it kept people intrigued by the moments instead of annoyed and tired of all the constant leyton drama. I dare anyone to find one episode with no leyton drama. There wasn't that many leyton moments when they were together, but for some reason being apart means they should have more. Brucas was better this season imo. It had more heartfelt and real moments, and brucas only had four episodes out of the whole season. How crazy is that?

I must comment on how fun it is to read the posts on this forum. Everybody has their own insights and they entertain me so much. On top of that, it raises my hope in Brucas being endgame. It is uncertain who it will be, but the forum has led me to believe that anybody with a brain (Mark) can see that Brucas should be together. Everybody keep posting this is great.

glad to see im not the only one who feels leyton was rammed down our throats, it was too forced and lacked the flow of brucas. i don't know if i'm biased and feel that way simply because i'm a brucas fan maybe leytoners think brucas was forced and shoved down their throats. but still i look at sn 4 and 5 and i start choking with my throat full of leyton crap. i dont think their are words to describe how much i shake my head at that couple.

god i miss brucas, thank god their relationship hasnt been poisoned like the broody blondes.

link

just had to put this here, a brucas youtube that is just so sweet, mainly just the looks the two share through out the seasons but really with brucas what else do you need, the eyes dont lie.

Broody_4_Cheery, i found this soo true! "leyton was rammed down our throats, it was too forced and lacked the flow of brucas."

yeah like that whole wedding breakup in the hotel was SOOO forced, Mark just needed more material to make Leyton seem great. and to give Leytoners that yearning feeling to have Leyton back together.

when you just watch Brooke and Lucas in ANY scene together, you can clearly see that they still care enormously for each other! i swear, if a boy looked at me like that i wouldn't just brush it off! lol

but i totally agree with bigdayne about season 5 and it being a Brucas season. the moments were very, very subtle but when you saw them you could honestly feel the emotions Sophia and Chad were trying to portray. like all the "i miss you" and "i love you" and all the helping each other was very sweet :] and Brucas totally does have that flow, they're just NATURAL, they naturally fit with each other. they work sooo well! like the BEST on-screen chemistries are just natural, take the Notebook - Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling, even though they hated each other while they were filming, they just couldn't deny how well they work together on-screen and that's the same with Sophia and Chad, they just fit. therefore Brucas is portrayed in such a light and effortless way that we end up falling in love with them

they HATED each-other? lol! I didn't know that...i thought that they actually got together while filming...LMAO. But anyway...why do they hated each other? I LOVE THEM SO MUCH TOGETHER <33! It's such a shame that they seperated. Why is this ALWAYS happening? I mean...after filming they get together...and then they go on seperate ways. I've started thinking that everything is just part of the promotion and it's not actual "love" between the celebrity couples.

And ofcource...totally agree with y'a! As Mark said "It's just that Chad&Sophia have this completely breaking chemistry..." <33! Yeah...they're like the definition of chemistry...!(L)!

you cant fake chemistry you dont even have to be together in real life or hot for each other or even like each other to have that undeniable on screen chemistry that brucas in kuhriissten words so effortlessly have. not had but have, it was there from teh moment they locked eyes maybe before hand and it never went away which just makes all their scenes together so powerful no matter if they are fighting, ripping their clothes off or just sitting on a couch being friends, and when two characters have such great effortless chemistry it is a crime not to develope it and use it to your advantage especially when the couple being promoted instead *leyton* don't have anywhere as near as good on screen chemistry, which sucks cause even i can admit that leyton originally had some sort of chemirtsy which just died so quickly (where as Brucas' is just indestructable, even being divorced in real life couldnt stop it).

it just cracks me up when people say that brucas have no chemistry or its nothing compared to leytons, come one, how biased can you get??? brucas clearly has the best and most consistant chemistry and they don't even need to try or act, its what pulls brucas off and keeps faith alive after so long.

hahaha yeahh they rachel and ryan hated each other during filming but then after they finished filming they started to get together LOL

Brucas HANDS DOWN has the best chemistry because they just RADIATE whenever they're on screen, i swear there's not enough emphasis put on how well Sophia and Chad work on screen together!

anywho, what're your predictions for season 6? i feel like Leyton WILL get together for the beginning of the season but something very significant in Brooke's life (not the break-in in the spoiler) will bring Lucas to Brooke and when he's there for helping he'll probably realize that she's the one for him (again). or maybe Leyton will spend time together and Lucas will realize they just don't have that romance and fireworks they had when they were young and in high school

my honest opinion and gut instinct is that leyton will start together but the brucas friendship will be worked on even more and they go to each other for support and someone to talk to, leyton will be cute and all but be missing that spark and as the season goes on it'll become more obvious that what they once have they don't have and they are holding on to something that is no longer there and they are now different people. they'll slowly just drift apart as lucas gets closer to brooke, i think brooke will have a love interest but like her other relationships (not brucas though hehehe) it will be lacking because she simply cant love anyone else like she loves lucas, i'm hoping this will rub lucas the wrong way and will get others to question his feelings for the gorgeous brunette and if they are just platonic, licas and peyton will have a rather painless break up where they seperate yet somehow keep their friendship and this will shock many people who thought they were 'meant to be' esp brooke who uses lucas' love for peyton as a safety net for her own feelings for him, but with that over she finds it harder to pretend (my own personal little opinion), i am perhaps crazily confident season 6 will either end with brucas together or in a season 2 finale style. and i hope that peyton uses this to become more independent and less reliant as she finds an inner strength and happiness that doesnt depend on other people, and also to step up in the friendship stakes and return the favour to brooke by supporting brucas and helping brooke get over her insecurties with lucas. and i'm sorta preying that eventually jake will return, like towards the end or even in a possible sn 7, though i would personally like him to return a lot sooner than that, more preferably while leyton are still dating. that was sorta a mixture of my predictions and my wants.

I don't know if you read my post about a brucas storyline, but that is exactly how I feel about it. I think their friendship could grow by playing godparents to james. THey could spend time together, and lucas can realize how much fun he has with brooke, himself and a child. I encourage you to check out my storyline a few pages back.

so i read your storyline and i really liked it! i can totally picture that happening, with the music label and them drifting apart. good job on thinking ALL of that up!

the whole lucas and brooke friendship is def not just a friendship, there's significant history there and it's not completely gone. we all know it.

and i think Mark tried to make Leyton's love seem so grand and amazing that he made it cheesy. i mean there are some cute moments but the big picture is that its sooo completely not epic

bigdayne i have read your storyline and all your post, i love them, seriously i am a kindred spirit, you seem to express in words the things i cant get out and you do it in a great way and if you guys like my summary of season 6 for brucas and leyton i encourage you to check out my full on ideas for sn 6

link

its more well thought out and focused on what i want not what i think will happen, i mean its really really how i want it to go *sigh*

YAHHH THE BRUCAS SPOT REACHED 800 FANS!!
that's MAJORLY crazy! lol

^^YAY! that's awesome!

Woah!! That's SO SO GREAT <33..xD! I'm so happy! Plus that we've added 3.000 + videos and we're going for MORE* Yayy! We're the best...lol!

im working on something; i am trying to make it really good, and better than what I have posted, so stay tuned and keep checking out this forum, cuz I know I will.

I know I have been working on some new big post, but I thought I would also mention some little things that I have been noticing:

I have tried to see how leytoners can like leyton, but I still really can't, so I thought I would share some possible leyton arguments for why they should be together, then completely bash them.

LPers may say that they were designed to be that way from the beginning. I do not agree. Mark said in an interview they were designed that way, but LPers are quick to forget that this was supposed to be a movie, but changed into a show. You can do a lot more with a show than a movie, which leads to more creativity and further development. Plus, developing it into a show can give somebody new ideas and avenues that cannot be taken in a movie. I can see Leyton in a movie, but the show development leads more towards Brucas.

LPers say that Brucas broke up because there love was not like whitey and camillas. Yeah, well there are a couple of things wrong here. For one, if that is your rationale, than leyton's wasn't like that either. Second, nothing tore their love apart. Brooke still loved Lucas, and it is evident he still holds deep feelings for her, so their love is still there. Also, the love between whitey and camilla developed over 30 or however many years they were married (i assume) so naley doesn't even have a love like that yet.

LPers will easily go to s4 ep9 where he says it is peyton he wants next to him. Well, he said the same thing about Brooke. Plus, it might not have gotten there if peyton hadn't messed things up anyway. Is it just me, or did LUcas not believe what he was saying to peyton? When he said it was her the first time, he had a puzzled look on his face like he was not sure. Then he saw her face light up, and realized it was too late to turn back, adn said it with more force like he really wanted to believe it himself.

LPers will say he wanted to marry her. Yeah, and she said no, but Brooke said that she would have said yes. Try to understand the situation. Peyton is willing to stab her friend in the back (twice) and ruin Lucas's relationships to be with him, but she is not willing to lose a crappy mail room job to be with him. That shows where her priorities are.

LPers will tell brucasers to stop bringing up the backstabbing, cause Brooke forgave her. Yeah she forgave her, but i am not talking about the triangle itself, I am referring to the effects it had on Brooke. She was so hurt by what happened, adn she was so scared to get close to anybody else, and it took her a while to get over it. You can forgive the cheating, but you cannot forgive or forget the effect it had on her heart for years to come. However, you can push it aside to be friends again.

LPers may say that Brooke cheated with nathan, so she isn't as clean as Brucasers say. yeah, she did sleep with nathan, but they were broken up. Plus, the incident had no effect on the relationship. Peyton's infractions did affect the relationship, cuz Brucas was together both times. Neyton wasn't in love anyway. Besides, if you include that, Peyton still holds the lead 2-1, adn it is not about Breyton or Neyton, But Brucas and Leyton.

LPers will say Peyton was trying to be a good friend and be honest with Brooke about her feelings for lucas so she could avoid another backstabbing triangle. Here is how you avoid another backstabbing triangle: DON'T SAY OR DO ANYTHING WITH LUCAS THAT CAN BE SEEN AS LOVE RELATED; IF YOU LOVE HIM, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. That is how you prevent a triangle. Telling brookd that just made her extremely paranoid, and made her question everything he did.

LPers will try to say that Lucas spent more time with Peyton anyway. No. Lucas spent more time with Peyton when Brooke wasn't speaking to him, and he was working with peyton to try and get her back. He drove their with her to go see her mom, but he went somewhere else when he was there.

LPers will say that in s5 it was clear he still loved her. Yeah, but you always harbor feelings for an old flame, especially if the relationship ended the way all of his have (aside from anna). None of his relationships were mutual, and he never wanted to break up with any of them, so he can still love all three girls, it's just leyton was the main one at the time, and Peyton would not let lucas be happy, so she had to ram down our throats how much she missed him (I was getting so sick watching that).

LPers say she came back for lucas, so they should be together. So after three years, she decides her job is going nowhere, and then decides to come back? She came back for lucas, after her job did not work out, so being with Lucas was not first priority. I sure hope nobody believes Brooke came back to Tree Hill to be with her friends. NY and NC are not too far away, and with her money she could fly back and forth, or fly people up there.

Everybody on the show believes in Leyton. NO, NO, NO. I believe Mouth and Haley are firmly behind Brucas. I don't think Nathan cares either way. Mouth said in season 2 it was ok when he and brooke were together cuz he thought they had the same soul. Haley was the one who asked peyton if she loved lucas or the thought of him. SOme may say she asked it in regards to lindsay, which may be true, but I think that Haley has seen Peyton mess up lucas's relationships and she does not want that to happen again.

LPers say that Peyton is so in love with him. SHe will not let him be happy with anyone else. One true sign of love is wanting that person happy, even if it is not with you. That is so not the case, so she probably does not love him as much as people may think.

Lpers say that they will be together because Mark likes them. That may the fault of a Brucas fan. One of the fans who has lost hope in Brucas. he or she might have read or seen an interview with Mark saying how much he loved leyton. If he liked them as much as people say, he would have made the relationship so much better, adn would not have made Peyton look so pathetic.

Lpers say Leyton will be endgame because that is how it was designed, adn that is how it will be. Why is that? Give me a reason. Moving on

That is all I could think of right now. Let me just say that I am not bashing Peyton. I think Hil is a great actress, adn I love Peyton and how she interacts with everyone, even lucas, as his friend. IF the show was made so that Leyton had great moments as a couple, and had a lot of happy times and memories, I would be ok, but that did not happen. Leyton kisses looked like two friends practicing, no spark or fire with it. Their attiudes do not work together either.

Stay tuned for the next major post I am working on.

one word...GENIUS! youre absolutely RIGHT on every issue Leytoners bring up, even though i know they would come up with stuff to back it up. but the thing is, they don't give LOGIC. they don't think beyond what is handed to them.

"Leyton kisses looked like two friends practicing, no spark or fire with it. Their attiudes do not work together either." agreed. when they do love scenes, something is off and it just feels awkward!

and i also tried to find reasons why people like Leyton but i'll never understand. their love is just so tortured and dramatic that it's overdone!

can't wait for more stuff from you bigdayne!

bigdayne, your arguments hit the core!

"Peyton is willing to stab her friend in the back (twice) and ruin Lucas's relationships to be with him, but she is not willing to lose a crappy mail room job to be with him. That shows where her priorities are."

"So after three years, she decides her job is going nowhere, and then decides to come back? She came back for lucas, after her job did not work out, so being with Lucas was not first priority."

And I adore P. Sawyer as well. I fell in love with her in s1 and continued to watch the show because of her. Then I start to like the other characters and my favorite couple before is Naley because they endured. When I rewatched OTH, I enjoyed Jeyton (whom I believe is the kind of relationship Peyton should have stood by) and leaned on Brucas (they were genuine together.) And because Peyton, in my strongest belief, never LOVED Lucas. Sure, as friends, yeah..but in love? She needed him ONLY because she had no one else. And she's not even interested in him whenever he was single but ONLY when he's happy with someone AND SHE'S NOT. It's like she uses him for a little drag and then right when Lucas proposed to her and she said no and with that "someday" line thrown that she used on Jake originally...I was wtfomfg!!! Peyton!!!! She could have had everything with Lucas right there if she said yes...but NOOOO!!!....she didn't because deep inside, subconsciously, she knows that her "TLA" with Luke is not meant-to-be and she's just sentimental about the whole idealized image of their so-called perfect love. She likes to be swept from her feet and Lucas is the only one who did that ever since Jake left. Even when she's with Nathan back in s1, all she seemed to do was complain of how "Nathan wasn't there for her" and she needs someone to rescue her from discontent and Luke was there. And when she's okay again, she pushes him away. And then when her world started falling apart in s5 with her crappy job, she hugs his book and bam! bam! she's in love with Luke again...comes back three years after they never spoke at all and expects to be entitled to him over a girl Lucas had a good relationship with for two years.

For real, Jake was the only one she seemed to be happy with and who reinforced positivity on her. As much as I prefer Peyton brood, I kind of enjoyed her being so smiley and contented with Jake and Jenny. For once, she was a better, stronger individual.

Season 5 made me so angry. It was a bitter joke with what they have done to Peyton. She's not the character I loved and respected anymore. If Mark claimed that he likes Leyton and praises Peyton as his favorite next to Luke and Haley, then he should stop pulling shit from nowhere and making it stick with pretty banners of "soul mates".

It's like he peed on Leyton and tried to cover it up with perfume...which doesn't remove the stink at all.

"It's like he peed on Leyton and tried to cover it up with perfume...which doesn't remove the stink at all."
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA sooo true! omg, HILARIOUS! totally agree!

like i said, Peyton loves the idea of Lucas because he is her safe haven, he's always saving her and basically never left her. well except for in the hotel hah.

and you guys know how lucas said something about how he'll wait forever for peyton? umm yeah so what happened to that? CLEARLY, they both know deep down they aren't meant to be like eka-chan said.

eka-chan & bigdayne...you ROCK! haha! Really..i can't decide who i love more right now..lol! You're just HILARIOUS and you're coming up with the BEST points. Thanks so much for posting here. We should really send this anti pucas conversation to Mark...just in case he opens his eyes and realises that BL are destined to be together. And y'know something? They might didn't have this "epic" kind of love...(many LPers say that they LOVE LP cause have this epic, full of drama, crappy & pathetic relationship) but it was LOVE...Ok? And what gets to me...is that they claim that Brooke was always the superfitial wh*re who only needed Lucas to CHANGE HER and make her grow emotionally. They also claim that BL was "high-school" and that's why it didn't last. They act like BL never happened...and just WORSHIP PUCAS....Well....just...WTF? Is it just me who thinks so...or all the LPers have gone completely CRAZY? WHAT'S SO DAMN GREAT ABOUT PUCAS? That they hurt everyone else around them with their pathetica "TLA"? That they get together...get horribly cheese with some "good moments" then Peyton decides ALL OF THE SUDDEN that she can't be with Lucas anymore, pushes him away...and while he's trying to get his life back...BOOM "Hi there...it's me...the blonde bitch again. Y'know what..? I am probably still in love with you..." *sad-puppy face & fake smile*
I mean...this calls for a BIG, FAT "WTF????"!!!!
I'm sorry but...do they DARE call this kind of "love" (-let's call it love...although it's not love.) TRUE LOVE ALWAYS? Are they f*cking kidding or trying CONVINCE themselves that it is so..? It just...doesn't make any sense to me.

lol. love all your points from all you guys and like always eka-chan i agree full heartedly with you and loved your post.

i since its been brought up i wanna discuss it, its something i usually avoid out of respect for LP's and Leyton but as this is the brucas spot what is the harm. does Peyton really love Lucas? now i'm with few of you guys who said that peyton loves lucas but isnt IN love with him, and i honestly have not seen anything to contradict it. the fact is she goes to lucas when somethings wrong with her life or when he's happy, what shows that her love for luke was more or better than her love for jake? its BS, she was genuinely in love with jake and we saw her fall in love with him. its not in love love leyton have its a friendship and need they confuse with being in love. i will never go for leyton because i don't believe she truly loves lucas and he deserves better even if he is an ass specially since i think he does love brooke. and i don't think mark is the leyton supporter he claims to be, like bigdayne said if he loved them so much he wouldn't have done the crap he's done to them, and i love eka-chans piss/perfume statement, so funny and so true.
Mark is the one who has weakened leyton and written them so badly, he is the one who designed brucas so strongly and focused on them for like 2 and a half seasons and still is careful to do every scene between them so well where as leyton we just get a whole bunch of annoying BS, LPer's say he's throwing us bones well i bloody prefer our bones that are small and meaningful and well done than the leyton shit that just makes it easier to not believe in their love. is he really such a big leyton supporter? i mean the guy is careful to keep the love triangle alive, to not gaurantee brucas or leyton as an endgame couple yet he is known as a LP fan, he raved about them when they were getting together but he also had just as many positive comments about brucas when they were getting together, he's supporting his show, and i think trying to confuse the fans so we keep interested in who the hell lucas gets with, i mean he's dragged a love triangle for 5 seasons coming soon to 6 seasons, that is a BIG thing, i like to think his leyton loving attitude is an act and just there to throw people of the scent its not like he can say 'oh yeah, don't like leyton that much anymore, they dont have the same chemistry and love i originally planned for them, so yeah i'm going to make the fans of them happy for a while dump them gradually and then get brucas together because brooke and lucas are the right aim for the show. but yeah so lucas and peyton are getting back together just so i can end them, so don't get too excited' thats not exactly a good plan, he may be promoting leyton because that is what the show is doing at the moment so he's promoting the show and not spoiling it for fans. where as in a more subtle way he is promoting brucas quietly within the show so when they do get back together (not if im sticking to when) it doesn't come out of the blue. in which case marky is sorta a genius with the way he keeps his fans crazy.

You hit the nail right on the head Broody. I always felt that Mark developed brucas much more subtly than leyton, so subtle that it had to be on purpose. The stuff people love is a slow burn, or a slow transition into something. Brucas getting together for the second time was a slow burn that took up a season's worth of episodes (s2 ep10 to s3 ep 9) adn when it finally happened, it was great. The leyton turn started really at ep 21 of season 3 and lasted for about nine episodes. What is even crazier is that the hook up was not even the biggest angle on the show. Brucas got together was one of the major episodes on that angle (them and naley). When Leyton got together, it had to follow Haley getting run over, Lucas having a heart attack, and Dan going to jail. If they are supposed to be such an epic couple, why did they not have a show geared towards their hook up. The night brucas got together had other stuff too, but not life threatening situations (just dan running for mayor really.) Plus, how can people say the brucas love was high school. FIrst off, a lot of people end up marrying their high school sweethearts, so that is not a bad thing, but what high school girl is going to write 82 letters to a guy she has a high school crush on. We are not talking about a few "I love you" notes, we are talking about 82 letters that she poured her heart into. The same goes for lucas who was writing her letters too. Why would they waste the letter thing on a couple that was just high school. If leyton was meant to be this epic couple, wouldn't Mark have saved the epic stuff like that for leyton? Can a leytoner tell me any epic love moment that Leyton had for me to believe they should still be together. It does not make sense for someone to say they love someone, but cause them so much misery. Lucas said he hated her, and although he was drunk, there is always some truth in what drunk people say. Being drunk usually means you lose the ability to hold your tongue. He may not have meant it that literally, but I think he realizes that the stuff that happened is the result of her, and he was just angry. I have stated that I believe that Lucas calls peyton for the fact that brooke wouldn't betray peyton, and lindsay has another show. If he calls peyton, it can't possibly last. WHy? Because it is the beginning of the season. If they are the epic couple, the endgame couple, they should get together at the end, not the beginning. There is no fun or intrigue in that, giving it away, leaving no reason for some oth fans (brucas fans) to watch the show anymore, meaning you will lose almost all of the fanbase. THey cannot break up again and get back together, cuz then it would be just plain ridiculous the number of times they couldn't make it work. IF he calls peyton (which i think he will) they will have to break up, meaning that lucas can get with brooke.

Broody_4_Cheery, you also said that mark is not the leyton lover he claims to be. Well what do you think about this OTH fact:
THe godparents of James are: lucas and Brooke
Not lucas and peyton, but lucas and brooke. COuld that be a sign for a brucas return? It would be real stupid for Brucas to be godparents but Leyton is the actual couple. That could be a great storyline (one I already wrote about) where Brucas gets closer by playing godparents to James. Peyton could either get jealous, or see who he really loves, adn gladly recognize defeat, or something like that.

I keep reading these great posts and get sidetracked on my own stuff. I will keep at it, but let me know if there is any OTH stuff you would like for me to touch on and I will gladly oblige. Keep posting.

hmmm can you oblige me because what i love about you bigdayne is the way you get the message across. theres something ive always wanted, a big essay like thing to read - a well thought out COMPARISON between Brooke and Peyton and Brucas and Leyton , such things as reactions, personility, actions, genuinality if that is a word, developement of characters and relationships, full on comparison between the two, not which is better, not biased by opinion just fact against fact. up for the challenge? and if you do youtubes, well a youtube comparison would be effective.

btw bigdayne, about the whole brucas godparent thing i so see that as a sign, always have, i take them standing together as a sign, i am soooo pathetic. im a brucas dog collecting all the bones thrown my way and not ashamed of it.
and its not just that they are jamie's godparents but from the lack of jamie and peyton interaction, have the two ever even spoken??? if leyton are so endgame how come peyton is such a little non existant part of jamie's life when the kid is one of the most important people in luke's life, especially considering every other bloody single character seems to be chummy with jamie, especially brooke who is in the running for jamie's best friend. they should have a name, brooke, lucas and jamie = brumie? bramas?
picture this for sn 6: lucas is dating peyton there for the broody blondes are spending time with jamie and jamie doesnt like peyton as much as brooke and lets them know it, he gets it into his head aunt brooke should be with uncle lucas and tries to set them up, i think that would be soooo cute and also if the kid can open lucas up to the fact brooke is his soulmate then all the more power to him. i love jamie!!!

lol third post in a row but i have brucas on my mind.
rereading what bigdayne was saying about the high school romance thing got me a thinking. though brucas didnt really date that long and it was when they were in highschool it was a serious relationship, they practically lived toegther, went through so much together in such a short period of time. when i look back at lucas life he's never really had a non serious girlfriend. he had a one night stand with nikki and was dating anna but i wouldnt have called anna his girlfriend, did they even kiss other than dare night. so his relationship history is three serious girlfriends, brooke, peyton and lindsey, but what makes leyton more serious than brucas, they might have dated for longer but we didn't see it it was in that mysterious four year jump and that part of their relationship was weak and long distant, so really their romance didn't survive outside of highschool, maybe bigdayne you could do something about the two relationships prooving Brucas was more serious than leyton, and that neither/which one was or wasnt a highschool romance depending on your own belief.

Broody_4_Cheery: NO, Peyton was never in love with Lucas...I never believed this. She wanted him, cried her eyes out for him but that's it. I mentioned this and I will say it again:

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"Maybe that is why I think however Lucas might have loved Peyton is nothing greater compared to how Jake loved her. If you disagree, rewatch the seasons 1-3 with Jake scenes and just look how Peyton's eyes are so expressive and filled with love (and they seem to be always smiling even when there are tears; she only looks like this with Jake) unlike the way she would look at Lucas. And Jake can hold Peyton like it's all he can do and I noticed that when Luke holds Peyton, he looks like his thoughts are wandering to something else."
----

I can't see the "glow" in P.S's face when she looks at Luke. And Luke also glows with Brooke.

And for the heck of it, I'm posting this again for kuhriissten:

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"It's like he peed on Leyton and tried to cover it up with perfume...which doesn't remove the stink at all."

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sophialover, I agree with you about some LPers here in fanpop: they're just mean and irreconcilable.

lol. just found this on tv.com and thought it was just so warped. warning nto my words:

I think Brooke going after Lucas was a mistake on her part because she did not understand the part that both Lucas and Peyton played in each other's lives in season 1. When it comes to Peyton it was not a good choice but we all have to remember that in season 1 Peyton went after Lucas BOTH before and during the time he was with Brooke. so i say that in season 1 the blame goes in three different directions: Brooke for not taking Peyton's feelings for Lucas seriously. Lucas for being a douchebag and leading Brooke on when he really wants Peyton all along (it was like he only went on with Brooke because she was "The next best thing"- as in sex). and Peyton for not making her feelings for Luke as clear as they can get by telling Brooke to her face before the Triangle (although i think that 1.07 was proof enough) i guess Brooke didn't care and even if Peyton didn't go through with the LP-ness that episode that still doesn't make Brooke's choice to go after Lucas directly fair game, same for Peyton when she goes after him while he is with Brooke. Season 3 was different only because of different reasons but same situation. Brooke (who knew how LP feel about one and another) stayed in denial for about 3/4ths of the season instead of directly confronting both Lucas or Peyton. Luke seemed as though he emotionally cheated on Brooke with Peyton all through out season 3 even when he claims to be fully committed to Brooke it seemed as though their relationship in season 1 and early season 3 was mainly based on sexual reactions toward one and another while later on he realizes that he could possibly be in love with Brooke while being in love with her best friend (thus, the massive confusion in season 4). Peyton did not make a wise choice and i think after Jake in season 1 and 2 she realizes that with Jake she only tried to bury and forget the feelings she had for Lucas (which could explain her constant pining after him in season 3 when he was not around) she knew that LB was to hook up again and did not want to be in the middle of them once more at least until Jake gave up on Jeyton letting Peyton go to Lucas (the guy she really wanted all along) in the end of the season, though it comes back to Brooke, she wanted to know when Peyton had feelings for Lucas and when Peyton comes forward (taking Jakes advise) Brooke feels threatened and slaps her, even though she decided to bury her feelings for Lucas once more for Brooke but instead, Brooke decided to call it war for Lucas and Peyton does exactly that and fights for her man once more, and who does he choose? Peyton. All of this mess could have been avoided if Lucas wasn't such a dumb ass.

and someone actually replied 'I pretty much love this post!! That is the best summary of the triangle I have ever read...' more like that is the most delluded summary of the triangle I have ever read. seriously that is so twisted i can't even bother debating it because it is just like every sentence is so wrong, i mean seriously biased much? I am shaking my head.

bigdayne and eka-chan, you're both good at putting oth relationships and characters into words, can either of you guys tackled how wrong that summary is. he he he. would love to read your comebacks.

eka-chan, this is VERY VERY true. "I can't see the "glow" in P.S's face when she looks at Luke. And Luke also glows with Brooke."

the scenes of Jeyton portray a lot more heart-warming than Leyton. the scenes of Jeyton&Jenny are like the scenes with Brucas&Angie!

Broody_4_Cheery - OMFG that post was SO biased and way off base!

from that pathetic, poor written post: so i say that in season 1 the blame goes in three different directions: Brooke for not taking Peyton's feelings for Lucas seriously. Lucas for being a douchebag and leading Brooke on when he really wants Peyton all along (it was like he only went on with Brooke because she was "The next best thing"- as in sex).

did Peyton EVER straight up tell Brooke that she had feelings for Lucas and it wasnt ok that Brooke was going after Lucas? um FCK NO. at open mic night, peyton HAD the chance to tell Brooke that she had feelings for Lucas but once again, peyton fcks up and doesnt tell Brooke.
Lucas didn't lead Brooke on...he developed genuine feelings for her after he spent more time with her and got to know her. and she made him laugh :]

-- Luke seemed as though he emotionally cheated on Brooke with Peyton all through out season 3 even when he claims to be fully committed to Brooke it seemed as though their relationship in season 1 and early season 3 was mainly based on sexual reactions toward one and another while later on he realizes that he could possibly be in love with Brooke while being in love with her best friend (thus, the massive confusion in season 4)

he did NOT seem like he "emotionally cheated on Brooke with Peyton" UM...where are you getting that from?
BASED ON SEXUAL REACTIONS?!...what the fck. their were emotions...the letters? the 82 freaking letters! filled with spilling out their love for one another.

--Peyton did not make a wise choice and i think after Jake in season 1 and 2 she realizes that with Jake she only tried to bury and forget the feelings she had for Lucas

wise choice doing what? she FELL IN LOVE with Jake!

--Lucas once more for Brooke but instead, Brooke decided to call it war for Lucas and Peyton does exactly that and fights for her man once more, and who does he choose? Peyton

WHAT? um, what? he chooses Peyton after Brooke breaks up with him. Peyton didn't "fight" for her man, she freaking intervened in Lucas's relationships until she got him.

are there REALLY people who applauded that? like i said, Leytoners don't argue with LOGIC, its more of a mindless babble.

kuhriissten and Broody_4_Cheery:

I think what Broody_4_Cheery posted was sensible enough. True it may be that the three have their own faults but the concept would be two here: Lucas loved Peyton first but eventually learned to love Brooke more (Brucas' side) and Lucas have always loved Peyton and just went after Brooke to forget this (Leyton's side.) Now personally, after having a conversation with abs07, an LPer, some Leytoners do have good points (and she was one of them) as to why they perceived a bond between Lucas and Peyton that is always there and won't go away. And Brooke loved Lucas but was too scared to admit that maybe he still wants to be with Peyton too. That's why she was guarded and that's why she thinks Lucas 'can't let her all the way in.'

I prefer Brucas but I agree that Brooke did have her own insecurities. And although they're not greater than Peyton's screw-ups (depends on if you're an LP or BL when you look at this,) the reality remains that Lucas didn't decide and stick with the choice. He fell in love with Brooke, he did, I saw that. But he never disregarded Peyton even after that, deluding Peyton that maybe Lucas loves her still so when Jake left, leaving Peyton miserable, she sought Lucas. And Lucas couldn't say "no" to her needs apparently.

That's why I started to dislike Lucas. He couldn't make up his damn mind, he idealized his relationship with Peyton in a fictional book, and he commits to a girl while keeping some other girl on the side. And his emotions seemed to be based on more of what people tell him...like he seeks to please everyone...but on the contrary, his sentiments backfire because people like Brooke and yes, even Peyton, deserve to know REAL FEELINGS from the boy they love. Lucas never gave them that. To me, he has the biggest fault!

And about the LPers who don't listen to LOGIC and only mindless babble: I don't know why this seems to be the case. My best friend is a sensible LPer and I think that LPers should try to stop with the OMEEGOD LEYTON TLA! arguments and explain very well why they prefer a couple and stop basing the other. abs07 is a very well-versed LP supporter. I like to meet more LPers like her.


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LEYTON TO ME IS: (posting this again ^___^)

1) A blatantly painful process of passive-aggressiveness between two people who are alike in style and manner but whose fundamentals and differences repel unconsciously
2) A romantic affair that's illicit; provokes despair to serve as an ingredient to a temperamental passion that destroys whoever comes near it
3) A hypocritical discernment on mature relationships when one incriminates the other and together they become egocentric and lost in translation of emotions.

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Hmmm, well, I'm also getting annoyed with all these Leyton shippers. I was looking through other forums about Leyotn vs Brucas and there was one that pointed out some Brucas points.

Peyton said to Lucas "Someday..." when he proposed to her... Savannah and Jake? He said "someday" about the both of them. She also said "We're not like Naley, we're too young..." as another reason not to get engaged to Lucas, but in Savannah, she had no problem being engaged to Jake at such a young age.

Plus, Brucas' drunken night in NY? I mean seriously, if they can plan a perfect future while they're DRUNK, it's kinda obvious that they'd been thinking about it before.

Thank you to everyone who has kept the Brucas love alive! I think it is truly telling of the maturity of this group. Bigdayne I have to say you amaze me with the way you can get your point across so decisively, very impressive. I admit I've attempted to do so and despite my best attempts (okay a lot of my stuff is written at work, lol) I just get too caught up in all of it. If I could write everything I wanted to say it would go on forever. But, the point is and many have expressed it before, the facts lie with Brucas, the reality lies with Brucas. I really believe that we have the stronger argument. In fact, I know so. I've attended too many negotiation classes to not notice the difference in Leyton and Brucas supporters. I give props to everyone for really hitting on quality arguments, regardless what side they are on. More importantly though, we have to keep that up, and I know we will. I wonder if our maturity, realistic views, and fondness for the couple are in someway connected. Either way, I think it is that distinction, really digging deep into the evidence that has reunited the Brucas faith. Leytoners can play patty cake all day long with their erroneous conclusions of True Love Always, as far as I'm concerned. I've stated my piece on TLA already, but seriously there is an amazing group of writers here devoted to Brucas. Imagine if we could pull it all together. Mark might still ignore it, but I say it’s worth a try. If for nothing else it wouldn’t it be nice to put the Leytoners on thier toes for a bit?
So, I loved Bigdaynes rebuttals on commonly used Leyton points. I agree with all of it, and wrote similar material in my first article. By the way, thank god we finally found a male voice for Brucas. If you don’t watch out you just might be the poster boy for male Brucasers! Lol Perhaps though you could write on behalf of Lucas, his POV and yours of course being the rationale gent that you are? It could be a very refreshing and different take on everything. Especially since Lucas has taken so much slack lately given his obvious confusion! I think this is a strong and new angle we can use, because let’s face it the way the show was written were not supposed be certain of anything. Maybe someone close to Peyton, ekachan I think has spoke up on her behalf, could write a POV of hers? We would want to have a POV of almost every character, on how they view the situation, ultimately uncovering the underlying love and significance of Brucas. I think people have forgotten about the other characters experience and feelings regarding Brucas. Maybe the writers meant it to be this way to build it up. Or maybe I’m just a lawyer in training, but with the direction this forum has gone I don’t think I’m alone. So what’s the verdict? Lol. What do you think?

On a different note, regarding comparisons to other TV couples… if Mark doesn’t want to end up like the writers of Felicity (does anyone remember that debacle? If not, reminder: they decided to have Noel be endgame -- a couple that was sweet in moments, similar in mind and good friends, a little awkward, with little chemistry…and ZERO passion, sound familiar? Well, the fans were needless to say, not pleased. I think they may have been even more upset at this than they were when Felicity cut all her hair off (also not a good choice…lol) Anyways to scrape up what dignity they had left at that point, the writers were forced to concoct some sort of plot or story that would enable Ben--her a little bit stalkerish, followed him across the nation w/o speaking to the man for more than say 5 min bc of a paragraph he wrote in her yearbook, on and off again love—and her to be together.
You see, what Ben and Felicity had was very much like Brucas, IMO. They share a little bit of the destined to be BS (via the following him to college) that Leyton began with, but Ben and Felicity had immense chemistry, and moments that just stomped on anything Noel and her experienced. Like Brucas, Ben and Felicity evolved together. They being opposites in personality easily completed each other, the interaction whether friends, lovers, or ex-lovers always seemed to be in sync. There differences were what made them great, and what made people love them and keep watching…for the hope that when it looks and feels like real love it is, and that you don’t have to settle…sounding more familiar?
So as I said, the writers went wrong in choosing Noel, like they will if it is Peyton end game, because the truest moments were and are shared, with Ben and Brooke respectively. As Felicity’s writers found out the hard way, if you don’t have the majority of the fan base supporting a vital aspect of your show, i.e. an end game couple, you are doomed. To escape complete disaster the slightly less catastrophic scenario they came up with was filled with witchcraft, time travel, mental institutions, etc…all to have Ben be the one that Felicity end up with in the end.
All of this could have been avoided if they had just opened their eyes and dissected the dynamics of the show, the fan base, and reality! Yes, it is highly unlikely that a girl who followed a man she didn’t even know would end up with this man, I know this. Sort of like how it seemed unlikely from the first episodes that Brooke was the better choice for Lucas over Peyton? But I think there is a bigger picture hanging on the fate of these couples. It’s a bit outlandish, but a lot of people feel connected to the couples and their story…they relate. This is where I think that Mark and his staff need to look closer into what exactly their intentions are and where the lives of these characters are going. It’d be a shame to put Leyton together without providing a viable explanation or better yet hope to the viewers. Right now hope to me is not pathetic longing and desperation, confusion, etc., and that is currently what Leyton portrays.
Message to OTH writers…open your eyes! Seriously take whole-heartedly the fans sentiments. Look at everything, every possible scenario before you make any end game decision. Because that decision comes with a following of viewers, and a message on life and love. OTH is not real life, TV shows do have writers playing puppet master. What they must realize though is that their fate lies in us, the viewers. I’m not going to say the show will lose tons of viewers because of who Lucas ends up with, but I do think it will have an huge effect on how the show prevails after filming ceases…hence, its legacy. Felicity lost a lot of its integrity when it had to reinvent storylines with unrealistic plots. In the end, though, Ben and Felicity were together. I endured the wretched time travel scenes to reach that happily ever ending for Belicity. I’m just hoping that I won’t have to do the same for Brucas!
So keep the faith, and keep putting the reality of Brucas out there! I’d like to think that we matter to Mark…after all if Brucas support is as strong as it appears, we are the ones essentially paying the majority of their mortgages! And let me just say before I go, I love this forum, and the Brucas spot fans!

hi guys im back and omg it took me forever to read all the comments lol so has anything happened while ive been gone i need to catch up lol

It has been a while since I posted something, so I am finally going to post something. There has been a lot of people asking for my opinions, so I am going to put it all here. Here is what will be covered:

I will first analyze that tv.com leyton post
I will compare Brooke adn peyton, and then Brucas and Peyton
I will also give an analysis of Lucas and what goes through his mind

On the tv. com poll:

First off, here is the post:
I think Brooke going after Lucas was a mistake on her part because she did not understand the part that both Lucas and Peyton played in each other's lives in season 1. When it comes to Peyton it was not a good choice but we all have to remember that in season 1 Peyton went after Lucas BOTH before and during the time he was with Brooke. so i say that in season 1 the blame goes in three different directions: Brooke for not taking Peyton's feelings for Lucas seriously. Lucas for being a douchebag and leading Brooke on when he really wants Peyton all along (it was like he only went on with Brooke because she was "The next best thing"- as in sex). and Peyton for not making her feelings for Luke as clear as they can get by telling Brooke to her face before the Triangle (although i think that 1.07 was proof enough) i guess Brooke didn't care and even if Peyton didn't go through with the LP-ness that episode that still doesn't make Brooke's choice to go after Lucas directly fair game, same for Peyton when she goes after him while he is with Brooke. Season 3 was different only because of different reasons but same situation. Brooke (who knew how LP feel about one and another) stayed in denial for about 3/4ths of the season instead of directly confronting both Lucas or Peyton. Luke seemed as though he emotionally cheated on Brooke with Peyton all through out season 3 even when he claims to be fully committed to Brooke it seemed as though their relationship in season 1 and early season 3 was mainly based on sexual reactions toward one and another while later on he realizes that he could possibly be in love with Brooke while being in love with her best friend (thus, the massive confusion in season 4). Peyton did not make a wise choice and i think after Jake in season 1 and 2 she realizes that with Jake she only tried to bury and forget the feelings she had for Lucas (which could explain her constant pining after him in season 3 when he was not around) she knew that LB was to hook up again and did not want to be in the middle of them once more at least until Jake gave up on Jeyton letting Peyton go to Lucas (the guy she really wanted all along) in the end of the season, though it comes back to Brooke, she wanted to know when Peyton had feelings for Lucas and when Peyton comes forward (taking Jakes advise) Brooke feels threatened and slaps her, even though she decided to bury her feelings for Lucas once more for Brooke but instead, Brooke decided to call it war for Lucas and Peyton does exactly that and fights for her man once more, and who does he choose? Peyton. All of this mess could have been avoided if Lucas wasn't such a dumb ass.

kuhriissten pretty much hit it right on the head. Leytoners always get on Brooke for going after lucas when peyton liked him. They fail to realize that Brooke liked lucas too. Plus, Peyton was with Nathan at the time that Brooke noticed lucas, and Peyton did not want a real relationship with him. Brooke was not in denial of LP, she was afraid of being hurt again by Lucas. I will admit that she had suspicions about LP, but when she confessed her love to him, she gave her heart completely. THe only time the thoughts came back completely was when Peyton told brooke she love lucas. There relationship in s1 and 3 were not sexually based, because he denied her when she flirted and only started to hook up when he saw that other side of her when peyton got drugged. In s3 it was not sexual either, cuz brooke wanted to sleep with him,and Lucas said no until they wre exclusive, so that point is ridiculous. Peyton and Brooke did not go to war. Brooke let lucas go to be with peyton, cuz she did not want to be in another triangle, and she knew that Peyton always believed she loved Lucas, and she would never be happy with him as long as Peyton was in the picture. Peyton did love Jake too. Why would Peyton bury feelings for Lucas? She could have gotten back together with him, before he started seeing anna, but she did not. You do not do the things that Jeyton did and Brucas did if you are trying to bury feelings. So many people have done great breaking down that ridiculous post, so there really isnt more to say.

The Brooke/Peyton comparison:
Brooke and Peyton are easily opposites in attitude and demeanor. Brooke is a exciting, vibrant spirit, and Peyton is a depressing, lonely person. THe main thing I want to look at is who is right for lucas. When Lucas is with Brooke, he is a better person. She was so happy with Lucas, and she has not been able to give her heart to anybody else like she did lucas. Peyton and Lucas are just two people who were thrown together, and tried to make things stick. Basically, Brooke though Lucas still loved Peyton, and Jake knew Peyton still loved lucas. THey both were dumped because they are apparently in love with each other, so why not hook up? That's the feel I got. It seemed like Lucas was like "Well I might as well give it a try" It is obvious something is there, I won't deny that, but there is no spark with them. What made it even worse is that Peyton didn't even tell lucas that she caused the break up. If peyton kept her mouth shut, Brucas would have probably still been together. People say Brucas did not trust lucas and peyton together. That is not true. Brooke did not trust Peyton. Peyton looked Brooke dead in the eye and said she did not want lucas, and lucas was deeply in love with Brooke, no matter what LPers say. Lucas did nothing wrong, he was just being a friend. Even if he did love peyton, he loved brooke too, and did not show any favoritism toward Peyton, and he showed Brooke that he really did love her. The bad apple in the whole triangle is peyton, because she initiated all of the issues for both of them. Brucas is not together because of Peyton, and Peyton still got what she wanted.

I need to analyze Lucas a little bit. Lucas is either loved or hated by LPers and BLers. I do not think Lucas is really at fault as some people say, and he is not a douchebag or a dumbass as people have said. Peyton and Brooke both liked him, and peyton decided not to be with him, so he is fair game. Besides, there have been plenty of women who like the same guy, and one gets him. And he did not go after both girls at the same time. People say Lucas lead Brooke on, but He did develop feelings for her, and the thing with Peyton in the hotel confused him. Here is the girl he fell for, she did not want a relationship, so he moves on, but never resolved his issues with her, and with the kiss came back all of his feelings for her. Lucas I feel did do the right thing by breaking up with Brooke. He wanted to be with Peyton,and it is not fair to Brooke to be with her if you cannot give your complete heart to her. IN fact it was Peyton who made the triangle open. She should have never hooked up with Luke behind her back. Lucas tried to rectify the situation. I am not excluding lucas completely, but he does not deserve the brute force of hate some people give him. Lucas is a great guy who happens to have two girls in love with him. s1 he fell in love with peyton, but she did not reciprocate. SO, he moved on to Brooke. Breyton were friends but Peyton never hooked up with him, and lucas even thought she wanted to be friends. Why should Brooke be unhappy cause peyton doesn't know what she wants? It's not like he ever dated peyton before brooke anyway. Anyway, Peyton made out with lucas, stabbed Brooke in the back. Lucas did not start it, and he was so in love with peyton at the time, while just getting to know Brooke. His feelings for Peyton were stronger at the time, so it was more of wrong place wrong time. He tried to move on with Brooke, but he still had unresolved feelings for Peyton, so they were gonna come out eventually. The fact they tried to sneak around behind brooke's back was more Peyton's doing because she was dead wrong for what she did. Since then, Lucas has been a great guy hands down. The fact is that in s1 Lucas tried to spare Brooke's feelings but she had fallen for him already, and it made it hard for people to like him after that, but his heart was not with her at the time.

This last section will show why Brucas should be endgame:

There is one reason and one reason only: development. For a relationship to last, especially from high school, people have to grow adn develop if the relationship is going to develop. Lucas has developed into a Keith persona. Brooke has developed into an independent, mature, hard working go getter. Peyton has not developed. She is still a depressing, lonely thrillsucker who is always crying and going through something. There comes a time when people just get sick and tired of her bitching and moaning about something and I will not defend it anymore. Lucas wants a steady life in tree hill, obviously cause he could have moved to NYC with lindsay. Brooke wants to have a family, which means she wants to settle down. Peyton does not know what she wants. She does not want to be in tree hill because of all the bad memories, adn Lucas is her only reason, but is that gonna be enough to keep her there when she chose a crappy mail room job over him in the first place? IF the people don't grow, the relationship doesn't grow, and the relationship will not change, it will get dull and eventually die. Lucas and Brooke have developed into two adults that fit perfectly together. They made up that story about their family in NYC and it was so funny and cute. I think Leyton should get together so they can see that their relationship has not grown, and that they were not meant to be. Then, Brooke will feel safe to be with Lucas, the way it should be. NOtice how Brooke adn lucas's relationship was derailed by Peyton.

Brucas is better than Leyton. Brucas was more developed, more heartfelt, adn more real. Leyton felt forced, dull, and absolutely no excitement. What exciting happened with Leyton. Their first time having sex was ok, but Brucas's first time followed a great segment in the rain, which blows leyton out of the water. Two season spent on brucas, half a season on leyton. Mouth and Haley preferred Brucas, who are lucas's two best friends. Brooke wanted leyton, but only to try to keep her feelings buried. If leyton never happened, I might feel a little different about them now, but they gave us leyton and when compared to brucas, it does not compare. the epic couple should be the couple that stands out above the rest. Leyton does not stand out above brucas, unless you are a random viewer who saw the first episode and saw where the show was going, instead of a loyal viewer who has given the show its fanbase. Leyton ended because they were growing apart and Peyton would not marry him. Brucas broke up because of Peyton. Brucas deserves to have a relationship free of any type of Peyton interference. IF peyton never said anything, we could have seen how far Brucas could have went. And you LPers are right, Peyton was honest this time and did not physically do anything with lucas, she just told Brooke and put the biggest fear of her life in her head; that's much better. This is why Leyton pisses me off. SHe was being honest?!!! WHat the f*ck did she expect to happen?!!! Was brooke gonna thank her for being honest? No!!! She was gonna be pissed because Peyton convinced Brooke to get back with Lucas and told Brooke that she was not gonna hurt her, and that she only cared for him as a friend. That was a low, messed up move, and I am amazed how Brooke was able to forgive Peyton again, but she will not forgive Lucas and take him back (I know the last comment was different times occurring, but you get my point).

Brucas was meant to be, Lucas said it and Brooke said it. THEY SAID THEY WERE MEANT TO BE. Did Lucas say that about leyton? oR did he just say that he loved her, because you can love somebody and not be meant ot be (HINT HINT) PLEASE TELL ME YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE MEANT TO BE WORDS OF BRUCAS AND THE SIMPLE LOVE YOU WORDS FROM LEYTON

That is all I can write for right now. I do not feel that good about this post because I tried to write so much and for so long that I could not focus on one main subject. If you like it , great, if not, I assure you I will do better next post. THIs goes on hours of writing this post. Please give me your thoughts on this last paragraph about "meant to be" and "love".

I just discovered something. In the episode where Peyton went to see Jake, Jake said, "If it's meant to be, we'll be together." when she was saying, "I love Lucas" in her sleep. Peyton then said, "SOmeday." She was in love with Jake, and I think she left to see the relationship play out so she could get lucas out of her system, thereby being able to fully give her heart to Jake. I think that when she got with Lucas, she started to confuse her feelings of love, and now she does not know who she loves anymore. She even told Haley that she missed what they would have became, but that is not unconditional love for him, but love for an idea. She is just afraid of losing another person in her life, because according to her, "People always leave." I think Peyton really wants to be with Jake, but doesnt' think it will work. It will work now because she does not need to be in Tree Hill anymore, and she can go be with him. I don't think it is right to just forget about a character as influential as Jake was. THey are both involved with music, so it would be pretty easy to get them together, and he could be on her label and make some money.

hey, sorry bigdayne, but im confused on this part:
"She was in love with Jake, and I think she left to see the relationship play out so she could get lucas out of her system, thereby being able to fully give her heart to Jake."
she left to see which relationship play out? her's & jake's? or her's & lucas'? haha idk im confused lol

i totally agree bigdayne about the whole jake peyton thing. she went for lucas because he was there and jake wasn't, its like she convinced herself she was IN love with Lucas.

kuhriissten, I understand what ur sayin; this was a point where I had been writing for hours and kind of lost track of my mind. What I meant was that She loved Jake, but he told her to go see how it played out with lucas. She went to see if she really loved lucas. If she did not, she could go back to Jake. If she did, than she can be with him. Basically, she wanted to see how her relationship with lucas played out, to see how her heart feels and who it belongs to. She knew she loved Jake, so she went back to see if she loved lucas also. This way she knows who her heart belonged to. But since Jake is not a regular now I guess that angle got dropped.

When I said If she did, than she can be with him, him refers to lucas. She loved Jake, but she had to see if she loved lucas also, and then decide who she wants to be with. But the Jake angle has not been mentioned for a while so I do not know what they are gonna do with that. THat is a problem when they make a strong story with a character not part of the main cast.