putri disney Feminism & Princesses forum

princesslullaby posted on Jan 20, 2018 at 10:05PM
Here we can discuss our views on feminism and the Disney Princess movies!

Anyone can comment here their views and opinions, just start talking:)

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lebih dari setahun yang lalu princesslullaby said…
Here's a question: Is there a princess you think is a lot more feminist than she is normally given credit for?

My answer is Ariel, but I won't go into so much detail right now. I certainly think she's more feminist than Belle, who is often labeled a feminist despite having little agency and being in the male narrative-- and Belle is my 2nd favorite so this is not an intentional drag.

Also, are you of the agreement that Mulan is the most feminist princess?

When we say "most feminist", remember feminism is about agency and women making their own choices. I do agree that Mulan is the most feminist, but not because she got strong in the army.
lebih dari setahun yang lalu SarahCorine said…
I think Mulan could be thought of as the most feminist princess. She's doing something that even in the movie is seen as disgraceful. She's a woman in the army and not only that, but saved China. She did so along side men. So I definitely agree that she's feminist. In terms of marriage, I'd say Jasmine and Merida are pretty feminist too. Jasmine because she stands up for herself by refusing to be a prize and just marry anyone. Merida too. I've only seen Brave once so I'm going off of what I remember. Not wanting to marry because she's more than capable of living her life with or without a husband. Belle is feminist in the way that she shows that women can read and learn too, especially when up against Gaston's ignorant comment about women reading. She does well to stand up for herself too even against men, and even her own prince. Tiana is often seen as more feminist when compared to the others because she had a job and didn't have much of an interest in marriage until she met Naveen. I think a princess can want a prince and still be a feminist. It's a natural thing for people to want someone in their life. A partner or companion. Pocahontas had her prince, but she can be seen as feminist because she was willing to stand up for her people and stop a war.
Sparklefairy375 commented…
Couldn't agree lebih lebih dari setahun yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu princesslullaby said…
Of course they can all be seen as having feminist qualities, but they can also have drawbacks as well. There's nothing wrong with the princess wanting a prince, feminism is about choice. But of the princesses, Ariel is the ONLY one who actively chooses a guy and goes after him herself. The rest are swept up in the male's narrative (Jasmine, Tiana, Belle, to some extent, Pocahontas) or chosen by the guy (Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Jasmine again ). Mulan, of course, doesn't have any real romance in her narrative (only hinted at the end with Shang) and Rapunzel actually blackmails a guy and forces him into her story, which is actually pretty great, and they basically tip toe around each others narratives. Merida, of course, doesn't have any man in her story so she's left of this.

Feminism is not standing up for people and stopping a war. That has little to do with feminism. What IS feminism is Pocahontas people' never questioning her authority and treating her opinion the same as anyone else's. Mulan saving China is not necessarily feminism, what IS feminist about it is Mulan never losing her femininity (defeating Shan Yu with her fan) and ignoring the men in power multiple times and coming out on top. To me what's NOT feminist is her still craving her dad's approval by the end when she was supposed to have learned she was good enough for herself and nobody else.
wavesurf commented…
^People still want the "stamp of approval from their parents" which is all that I see in mulan hugging her dad and tampilkan him the stuff from the emperor. Wanting the stamp of approval from your parents isn't unfeminist to me. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
SarahCorine commented…
Definitely agree about that wavesurf. It didn't just undo everything she had done. That really was a beautiful moment between father and daughter. Last time she saw him, he berkata some hurtful things too. It was him saying sorry and how proud he is of her. And it was mulan telling him she missed him and loves him. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu disnerdtobe said…
I think every DP is feminist. What's important is the DIVERSITY of the group, not just a singular personality.

Snow White - she's actually a lot more feminist than people give her credit for and they dismiss her for being a lovesick damsel. Snow White only has one damsel moment. She spends the rest of the movie picking herself up and saving herself. She's actually very proactive. She puts on a brave face even when the queen wanted to kill her. She shows good problem solving skills by finding shelter. She shows girls that negotiation is important, by negotiating with the dwarves to let her stay. People complain that she's anti-feminist because she cleans, but really, she's more of a cleaning leader than the actual cleaner. She has leadership skills and got the animals to do basically all the chores while she bosses them around, sings a song about cleaning, and occasionally sweeps with the broom. She also has a sassy side. Yes, she likes romance but she actually spends most of the time just enjoying herself and thinking about survival, instead of crying and whining that she's not with her man. She's assertive and tells the dwarves what to do even though it's THEIR house.

Cinderella - also more proactive and assertive than given credit for. As Walt said, this time, Cinderella comes to her prince. She maximizes her opportunity and goes to the ball. She even mentioned to her stepmother, that "every maiden" is to attend. She showed problem solving skills and got Bruno to chase Lucifer so she could have the key. And she was prepared enough to bring the second pair of slippers. Her happy ending was the result of her good doing.

Aurora - she's the most traditionally feminine out of the group. Which isn't a bad thing because the other DPs are very proactive/heroic to balance it out. Aurora shows that there is nothing wrong with being girly and needing others' help, even if the help received happened to be from a man. Not to mention that SB is a feminist story overall, with the three good fairies doing a fair share of the amount of work, and a badass female villain. SB shows different types of females.

Ariel - she stands for freedom and the importance of a woman's voice, the agency to make your own choices in life. She chases her own man.

Belle - she shows girls that they shouldn't dumb themselves down for a guy and that being smart and reading are good things. Belle is brave and stands up for herself. She does NOT have stockholm syndrome. The fact that she's willing to run away from the castle and break her promise proves that she has STANDARDS. She also shows girls that they don't HAVE to care about romance.

Jasmine - like Belle, she stands up for herself and demands respect. She's not just a piece of meat and a prize to be won.

Pocahontas - brave, wise, noble. She takes on a leadership role by stopping a war and thinking with her own brain what is right. She looks to the wisdom of older women before her. She saves the guy.

Mulan - I don't think I even need to explain

Rapunzel - she shows that there's nothing wrong with being girly as she has many girly hobbies like sewing and baking. But she's also heroic, hitting people with pans and blackmailing Flynn to reach her goal, so she has lots of agency too. She saves Flynn many times.

Merida - a bad role model for most of the film, but still feminist. She shows girls that it's okay to have a tomboy hobby like archery and that marriage isn't the most important thing.
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missdoney commented…
Good comment, i never thought this side about Snow White. But anda make me see other side of her. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
princesslullaby commented…
Again, I think anda can argue that every princess has feminist qualities. However, overall, I don't agree that Snow White, Aurora, cinderella are feminist princesses, I think they are lebih deterimental. cinderella maybe less so. Not a princess, but Anna is terrible for feminism--- I wrote about this in a 12 page essay on frozen. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
UnholyNoise commented…
^ Could anda like...back this up with something? Because "no they aren't" isn't a valid argument. Agency and initiative are important, but they aren't the end-all of what it is to be a feminist character. Someone like Ariel, who strikes out on her own, isn't lebih feminist just for doing this when she essentially still needs her daddy and various other male- atau male-coded characters to bail her out, when she's pitted against the only other significant female character, gets a man to "love" her while not being able to communicate anything meaningful about herself to him, and then there's the gross sexualization of her body - the seashell bra thing is infamous. What I'm saying is, reducing feminism to how much a woman chooses things for herself is shallow - we can't just use that and nothing else to gauge how feminist anything is. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu wavesurf said…
I tend to agree with Disnerdtobe, here. All of the princesses make their own decisions ( although some make a greater quantity of their own decisions when compared to others). But I wouldn't DO as the internet LOVES to do, which is rate them from "least to most feminist" as if that makes SO MUCH DIFFERENCE. I tend to believe that the fact that females/princesses have "starring roles" in the film itself, that the focus is on them to a certain extent, and so there is feminism naturally built into that decision alone.
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disnerdtobe commented…
I agree, especially about the naturally built in feminism with female protagonists. This is why I consider Walt disney to be a feminist at heart, atau at least he had some feminist instincts, even if he wasn't fully aware of it. When Hollywood makes the majority of its film with male leads, I applaud disney for being the only studio with majority of female leads, and I don't mind that most disney film have female leads. Just like pixar has mostly male leads, so it is what it is. Not everything has to be exactly 50/50. And the ranking think leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Cause then I feel politically obligated to like Merida, mulan and Tiana better than the other princesses, which I actually don't. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu MaidofOrleans said…
I agree that each princess is at least a little feminist in her own way. The only exception to this would probably be Aurora. I love her, but I just don't see how she's feminist at all. She has no agency in the film, and the one time she makes a decision for herself (when she breaks the rules and dances with Phillip) happens because a man encouraged her.

I think that Snow White, Cinderella, and Ariel are all a bit more feminist than most people give them credit for, and that Belle, Jasmine, and Tiana are a little less feminist than most people give them credit for.
AudreyFreak commented…
I think Disnerd berkata it well, but I'll paraphrase the wonderful writer maryksand on Aurora: Aurora is a young woman whose independence and emotional needs are no longer that of a child's, which is exactly how the loving but protective peri treat her sometimes. She desires companionship and breaks her aunts' rule about talking to strangers, because she met someone she felt a genuine connection with who was respectful and considerate towards her. She doesn't let him make the rules- she tells him they can get to know each other better on her turf, where she'll have her aunts' protection. In general, Aurora is not at all stupid atau a milksop as people say she is; she is shown to be intellectual and less innocent than her predecessors. Also, her great dignity and strength in being told her life is a lie. In an era when women were usually seen as overemotional and needing to be coddled, I liked her reaction was to cry and mourn as anyone would, but do what was right anyway. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
MaidofOrleans commented…
^ Fair enough, but I fail to see how any of that counteracts what I berkata about her. She breaks the rules to dance with Phillip because he, a man, encouraged her to do so. She allows him to pressure her into a situation that she is clearly extremely uncomfortable with initially. Yes, she tells him to come visit her in a place where she has lebih power, but this is still a decision she makes that revolves around a man. Plus, that interaction never ends up happening because she then falls into the traditional "damsel" role and has to be rescued oleh him. I agree that she handles the situation with dignity and strength, but again, I fail to see how that makes her feminist. To me, feminism is primarily about agency, and for women to be allowed to exist outside of the men in their life, and Aurora has neither of those things imo. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
princesslullaby commented…
I completely agree MaidofOrleans lebih dari setahun yang lalu
RoseRapunzel commented…
I don't see exactly how Aurora lacks agency and isn't allowed to exist outside the men in her life, I remind anda she was raised oleh three women and she did make choices: she chose to trust Phillip despite he was a stranger (he didn't pressure her, she consented), she chose not to reveal her identity and give him another chance at the cottage and she chose to fulfill her duty as princess and go to the kastil, castle despite she would've preferred to keep her old life. All of these are choices she made on her own. I also don't see how a decision that revolves around a man is automatically wrong (but then again I'm not really a fan of feminism itself as ideology, which is not to say I don't acknowledge men and women have equal rights). When she decided to become the princess she's meant to be, she wasn't solely thinking of Phillip, she was thinking of her own life as well, so not all her choices revolve completely around a man. ·4 bulan yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu Sparklefairy375 said…
I agree if Mulan was considered the most feminist. Not because she was strong, but she proves that a woman was able to do the same things that man usually do. Feminism is a belief that women should have equal rights and opportunities that a man usually have, and Mulan already prove that.

I think some of other princesses are still having the feminist quality in their own way, although not as strong as Mulan. Jasmine and Merida are feminist due of they stands up for themselves and refuse arranged marriage. Belle shown us that a woman have rights for reading and have knowledge. Tiana shown us that woman have rights for have a job and career. Pocahontas too, she stands with herself and speak her opinion.

I respectfully disagree with Disnerdtobe, who said that every princesses are feminist. I personally don't think Classic Princesses are feminist. What Disnerdtobe said about them is more like their good quality in overall for me, rather than their feminism traits. But it doesn't mean that being feminine, having a prince, and do chores are a bad thing. It's your own choice to be feminist or not.

I also don't think Ariel is feminist by the way. Yes she's way more active and she stands for her decision, but I don't think it was count as feminist movement. What she did is more like she was rebelling towards her father and chasing her crush. The same thing with Rapunzel, she just being feminine but also heroic in same way, which I don't find any feminism traits from her. Hitting peoples with pan and blackmailing Flynn doesn't mean she's a feminist, instead she was shown to be smart and quick thinking.
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princesslullaby commented…
Feminism is about agency, and a woman's choice. Unlike the other princesses, Ariel made an ACTIVE CHOICE in her narrative to go after eric (AFTER being pushed and shamed oleh her father/patriarchy, she rebelled, not because of her being lovesick) and as long as Ariel makes an active choice herself to go after a guy, it's not less atau lebih feminist of her to do so. As long as she had the agency to do it, and it was her decision, there is nothing wrong nor does it make her less feminist to go after someone she loves. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
MissCinico commented…
Just to play devil's advocate I'd say that Ariel changing her body to accommodate Eric and being persuaded oleh Ursula to use her body language and agreeing to get him to cinta her without her voice (kind of enforcing the women don't need to talk, because what she says isn't important" type of rule. Ariel also leaves all of her sisters and halaman awal for berkata boy. I personally think most of the disney Princesses are feminists in their own way (with the exception of Belle and Aurora). lebih dari setahun yang lalu
MissCinico commented…
It's all about perception Sparkfairy375 can have her view just as much as we have ours, no need to start an argument, when it's clear neither side is willing to change and understand the other. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu MaidofOrleans said…
Also I'm gonna link my DP Movie Bechdel Test article I wrote a couple years ago, in case anyone is interested in reading it (or re-reading it). link
Sparklefairy375 commented…
Don't know about the test before, but that's interesting! lebih dari setahun yang lalu
Sparklefairy375 commented…
I don't get why need to take the test seriously and plus, seeing komentar here just prove that anda don't even understand what's the main purpose of that test. I recently read the article, and so far that I see, the test is just calculating and analyze about influences of woman in movie history. And the test is very subjective and sure, it won't be satisfy everyone. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
UnholyNoise commented…
wavesurf, i'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the bechdel test isn't leading to any changes in the industry when writers are already deliberately cranking out media that is lebih bechdel-compliant, and some countries are even using it to grade upcoming films (e.g. sweden). also, anda are asking the bechdel test to do an unreasonable amount of heavy lifting - since when do we expect any test to not only diagnose the problem but then also hold our hands and fix it for us? the blood sugar test isn't a bad test for not telling diabetics how to keep their glucose in check, atau for not making sure they actually do it; it's up to people to figure that shit out on their own. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu JungleQueen13 said…
Most feminist - well yes, I would say that is Mulan. She was part of a society that had strict gender roles and expectations, and while fighting for feminism wasn't Mulan's main driver, she certainly fought back against these while she tried to prove her own self-worth.
lebih dari setahun yang lalu UnholyNoise said…
crossposted from the feminism poll that went to shit

here's my top 6 disney incels:

6. jafar (failed pick up artist)
5. shi fu
4. lawrence
3. prince john from robin hood (extensive mommy issues)
2. ratcliffe
1. omg definitely frollo

discuss :)
disnerdtobe commented…
and gaston! lebih dari setahun yang lalu
BelleRose829 commented…
Whoops I didn't know what incel meant either, but does it always have to be male? If not the Match maker could be one too, even tho she's female. She promotes a mysoginistic society, just like all the men. also Ursula she says on land it's much prefer for ladies not to say a word AND she straight up uses Ariel's body as a toy and says she got to use her "body language" but if it has to be a dude, the I guess not XD lebih dari setahun yang lalu
AudreyFreak commented…
And Grumpy is a reformed MGTOW lebih dari setahun yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu JungleQueen13 said…
This question is straying off topic a bit, but I'm curious to know which other well-known Disney/non-Disney animated heroines people find to be most feminist?
wavesurf commented…
^Well, I tend to think of Esmeralda, Kidagakash, Jane Porter, and Megara ( to an extent). And there are other heroines I cinta from books. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
UnholyNoise commented…
As far as non-Disneys go, the ones I usually see are: Anastasia, Marina, Chel, Miriam and Tzipporah, Kayley, Odette,...um...Astrid? Like, personally, I have different women I'd add to this, and I think some of the usuals, especially anastasia and Tzipporah, are way less progessive than their fandoms give them credit for, but get higher billing for hitting the strong female character notes lebih easily atau for being the designated cinta interest. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
MissCinico commented…
But then again, I also consider Belle and Megara to be pretty bad feminists, so the way I see things might seem a little weird. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu UnholyNoise said…
Agency is a major part of feminism and should be treated that way when we evaluate how feminist the princesses are. But I think there are other things that should be taken into account too - like sexualization (especially wrt women of color!!), how much they're confined to misogynistic character tropes (e.g. damselhood, strong female character syndrome), what impact they're allowed to have on the story (the "sexy lamp" test); even character design has a place in this discussion.
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princesslullaby commented…
i think they all pass the sexy lamp test, but the rest, yeah only a few.... lebih dari setahun yang lalu
AudreyFreak commented…
If I have to hear one lebih guy (usually some teenage boy) says Jasmine/Pocahontas/Esmeralda/Ariel/Elsa is his "favorite" obviously just because of their outfits I'll let Elsa freeze my jantung willingly. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
MissCinico commented…
^Same. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu snowybennet said…
heart
In my opinion Snow White isn´t anti-feministic, people make her seem like that.
Snow is actually a reivindicative character, when SW7D aired it was not very common to see movies where the woman plays and important role and actually runs away from home, at the time it was very common to see sexualized females viewed as an object or a trophee for males.
Snow isn´t like that, this 14 year old girl runs away from home and only cleans the house because she has been forced to clean all her life, and bc she thinks the dwarfs are actually 7 little children and maybe if she cleans the house for them they´ll let her stay. She is positive and kind, she is also flirty and sarcastic with Grumpy, she has personality, she is not an object.
Of course her role in the movie can´t be like Mulan, because Snow is just an orphan 14 year old girl that doesn´t know how to fight and has to find refuge bc her stepmother wants to kill her, she is one of the bravest princesses because she NEVER gives up, she doesn´t break down, she cares more about others than herself, she´s independet.
This is a reminder that being feminine shouldn´t be considered as a symbol of sexism but feminism, a woman is free to be and do and think whatever she wants. That´s one of the many reasons I love Snow she isn´t a tomboy, she is feminine but also brave, she keeps it classy.
 In my opinion Snow White isn´t anti-feministic, people make her seem like that. Snow is actually a
princesslullaby commented…
I think maybe for her time, snow White MAY have been feminist (she's still a cooking cleaning homemaker so I don't know how much credit I want to give her) but on a grand scale she is definitely not lebih dari setahun yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu AudreyFreak said…
Somewhat related, it seems to me that with a lot of (mainly male but not always) writers, if they CAN avoid writing positive female relationships, they do. Tiana x Lottie, Moana and her grandma, Pocahontas x Nakoma, and Aurora and the fairies are great but it kills me how barring Aurora, NONE of the girls are Mama's girls. I'm not bashing women who are closer to their dads, but it seems Disney has little idea of what to do with moms so they just either kill them off or let them sit on the side. Even Moana does this and her mom probably has the most screen time barring Elinor. This is so common in the media, even in series that are fairly progressive with their female characters (I'm looking at you, A Song of Ice and Fire). Merida does have the most realistic relationship with Elinor I think, but again, she prefers Fergus. This also is another issue, how 2 heroines with different interests naturally can't get along. (Which was a wasted opportunity with Frozen but I guess they kinda made up for it in the short films?) It just ticks me off that movies seem to think moms are useless and father figures matter more. I hope Disney fixes this in the future.
princesslullaby commented…
Absolutely agree. I do appreciate that brave is about Merida and her mom building a relationship, , certainly better than the mom being dead. All of the princesses are daddy's girls, even Tiana whose dad is literally dead, receives lebih screentime than Eudora. I would say probably Ariel is closer to her mom in TLM3 than her dad, and even TLM and TLM2 she has a bad relationship with her father, but her mom is dead so...no screentime. And the way moms are ALWAYS represented as kind, nuturing, and pure, never loud atau bombastic like Fergus atau the others. Would be nice to see that as well, a mom with a commanding personality atau at least not just kind sweet and demure. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
UnholyNoise commented…
^ or, anda know, recognize they're out of their depth and hire actual women to write these things instead? and also, this isn't an either-or issue - marketing plays into it, but so do many other things, such as men in media being generally uninterested in and ignorant about in the aspects of women's lives where men aren't foregrounded. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
MaidofOrleans commented…
^ This! lebih dari setahun yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu princesslullaby said…
Going off of what AudreyFreak wrote above, the princesses movies have an appalling lack of female sidekicks. Every princess has heavily male sidekicks and the only time they have a female sidekick she's usually an old woman (the 3 fairies, fairy godmother, mrs.potts). for the latter 2, Cinderella's male sidekicks and in regards to BATB, lumiere and cogsworth have more of a presence than mrs. potts. The only exception is Nakoma, who is young, but still has less screentime than Meeko and Percy. I'm always so angry that EVERY Disney princess movie has heavily more male characters with screentimes and names, except for the princesses. (again, interesting exception is sleeping beauty). Lottie may be another exception, but I really wouldn't call her Tiana's sidekick-- she actually unintentionally opposes her-- and still ray and louis have more screentime.
princesslullaby commented…
so many sidekicks could have been female. how cool would a female lumiere have been? suave and dashing. female maximus! even just a female pascal! female louis, dreaming of being a trumpet player? but it's always a male. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
wavesurf commented…
eah. I did realize this a while ago... That along with killing off the mothers, the friends of the princesses are mainly males. It is odd that even the pets: anjing that belong to other people, and not necessarily to the princess (Bruno, Little Brother) and kucing (Lucifer, Rajah) are males. The one exception is Stella, but she gets, like, 40 detik of screentime? You're right. Angus, Phillipe, Samson, Maximus, and Khan are all male, too. It's weirdly repetitive. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
MissCinico commented…
^Then why did Walt disney make cinderella that's mostly all about women. But we do have quite a few female sidekick, I mentioned tinkerbell and the ikan before, but there's also Turk, bunga (the skunk), Mrs. Potts, Dory, Esmeralda, Eilonwy (to some extent), Big Mama, Nana, Lady Kluck, Madame de la Grande. There's clearly a lack of of female lead and female sidekick, but female sidekicks do exist, they just go unnoticed most of the time. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
lebih dari setahun yang lalu BelleRose829 said…
I'm highly unfeminist (mostly due the negative connotation with them on the internet), but I think that's the only real feminist princesses are Mulan and Belle since they really ring home the I don't need a man thing. The worst example are probably the classics, and the man dependants like Jasmine, Ariel, and Pocahontas. I think Tia and Merida could be considered feminist too, but they're among the more hot-headed types. This probably annoys some people, but yolo.
princesslullaby commented…
I'm not sure how anda consider Belle lebih feminist than Merida just because Merida is lebih hotheaded. Just because Merida has a temper doesn't make her less feminist. Belle, if anything, had very little of her own agency in her story and was still tangled up in the male's narrative. At least Ariel and Pocahontas create their own narrative, especially Ariel. Also, pretty poor reason to be antifeminist because of negative connotation on the internet, that's like not liking a movie because anda don't like the fandom. If anda belive in equality between genders and a woman's right to choose, you're a feminist. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
BelleRose829 commented…
I prefer the term equalist, as in I want equality between all human beings. I'm not just focused on the women, but everybody. That's also why I don't considered myself a feminist because I'm other things too, and value equality in other demographics as well. Also I personally think the perfect "feminist" character doesn't have to be overly hotheaded atau tomboyish like Merida, that's why I think Belle's a better feminist. Sure Pocahontas and Ariel do their own thing, buuuuttt they kind of only do their things because atau revolving around men, I mean there's barely any other female characters that make an impact on them, except for Ursula in ariel's case. Also it's lebih like not liking a movie because all your friend don't like it, but I get your point. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
MissCinico commented…
I agree with Princesslullaby, I think most all other other princesses could be considered feminists besides Belle and Aurora. Belle gets tossed around during the whole duration of the film and has nothing to advocate for besides her snarky remarks about the Beast and how rude he is. Also I think melati is extremely feminist diberikan the situation she's been put in. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
UnholyNoise commented…
@bellerose - intersectional feminism is a thing; it's not like femiinists only care about themselves and no one else. and like...the patriarchy is terrible for guys too. lebih dari setahun yang lalu
·8 bulan yang lalu notbrandyss said…
People always complain about the princesses being poor role models, but for example some of the non princesses carry good feministic qualities: Miss Bianca is a highly esteemed diplomat, Nani and Kanga are single moms caring for their children without a man aiding them, Duchess and Lady are the main leads of their movies who drive the plot forward, not the men, etc etc...
notbrandyss commented…
in b4 some salty fanbrat comes in to tell me how I'm all wrong, that they're nowhere near as feminist as Belle atau Aurora, and blah blah blah muh morals, muh preachiness... ·8 bulan yang lalu
·8 bulan yang lalu notbrandyss said…
Also, Judy Hopps. Police Officer. Hard-working, determined, and has a big flaw that she's willing to work to defeat. Of course, the "best role models are the classic princesses cause they're good housewives" crowd would probably hate her for daring to do something outside of cleaning and cooking.
·7 bulan yang lalu AudreyFreak said…
^good thing they don't exist then since this isn't the 60s or a red pill forum, lol. I've still yet to see Judy get any hate from anyone besides scarletunicorn.
UnholyNoise commented…
layla needs to put lebih research into her trolling. i've seen exactly zero people here praise the classics because they're "good housewives." ·7 bulan yang lalu
notbrandyss commented…
And Audreyfreak isn't a housewife fetishist? don't joke with me UnholyNoise, anda should like me. ·7 bulan yang lalu
notbrandyss commented…
And anda hate her, don't deny it. ·7 bulan yang lalu